对话请点击音频:
Please click the audio so as to listen to the interview:
![](https://static.wixstatic.com/media/3486ea_cc2c8a1d3f5145e08d2e828348be17f3~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_716,h_407,al_c,q_85,enc_auto/3486ea_cc2c8a1d3f5145e08d2e828348be17f3~mv2.png)
Background story:
"I have lived long enough now", writes Adam Gopnik, "to see several absolutely horrific epochs come and go...looking much less absolutely horrific once they're gone."
He reflects on how Donald Trump's presidency will affect our sense of what constitutes normality.
"Are we every day normalizing behaviour", he asks, "that will bring an end to normalcy itself".